February 23rd, 2006
A new low for Liverpool fans
It’s bad enough that United’s abyssmal performance last Saturday put them out of the FA Cup. Worse still, was that it was to Liverpool and that Alan Smith suffered a horrific broken leg and dislocated ankle which even hard-boiled Alex Ferguson described as “some of the worst I’ve ever seen”. Not only will these injuries sideline him for a considerable chunk of time, such a promising young player can kiss goodbye his chance of playing for England in the World Cup.
If that’s not enough doom and gloom for one football story, The Guardian reports today that Liverpool fans outside Anfield attacked the ambulance that was bringing Smith to hospital.
“Supporters surrounded the vehicle while throwing missiles and shouting “Munich scum” in reference to the plane crash that killed 23 people, including eight Manchester United players, in 1958.
Bottles, beer glasses and stones were hurled as the ambulance became stuck in heavy traffic after Saturday’s FA Cup tie. Witnesses also claim the ambulance was rocked as some Liverpool followers tried to overturn it. A spokesman for the Merseyside ambulance trust confirmed the attack and condemned the people responsible.”
During the game, apparently Liverpool fans also threw paper cups filled with faeces in the United fans’ away section.
Les Lawson, secretary of the Merseyside branch of the official Liverpool Supporters’ Club condemned the attacks on BBC’s Radio Five Live but also added “I don’t think the relationship between the two sets of fans will ever improve really because there is a great rivalry and the fans just don’t like each other.”
Unfriendly rivalry between fans will always be part of football, but I don’t think fans’ dislike of each other justifies this.
February 23rd, 2006 at 10:48 am
Come on Sinead, Smith wasn’t getting anywhere near England’s team for the World Cup, as a striker or midfielder. It was a shocking injury to look at, but it looks like he will recover from it and play again without too many problems. Momo Sissoko’s injury last Tuesday night for Liverpool however sounds much more sinister. Reports this morning from the Lisbon hospital he was treated at suggest his vision may be permanently compromised, to what extent is unkown. It goes to show an inocuous looking incident can do more harm to a player than the headline grabbing injury Smith suffered.
February 23rd, 2006 at 10:53 am
Sounds like you’ve missed the point of the whole post - the disgraceful behaviour of the fans. Are you a Liverpool fan per chance?
And Smith, World Cup contender or not, could be out for 12 months according to theFA.com.
February 23rd, 2006 at 11:36 am
I am a proud Liverpool fan and I only chose to comment on the parts of your post that I disagreed with.
I would hope nobody would argue with the main thrust of your post. However, it should be noted more widely that Man Utd. fans were chanting disgraceful and extremly inciteful vitriol early in the game. They changed the five times tune to sing ‘We won it 2 times, without killing anyone…” and continued to taunt with further songs regarding Hillsborough and Heysel. It is impossible to underestimate the depth of feeling in Liverpool over those two tragedies and I have never heard reports of away fans sinking so low as to taunt over them before.
My point of view is the same as the Liverpool Supporters Club and LFC in that it is regretable and wrong that some Liverpool supporters lowered themselves to similarly base levels of behaviour in response.
February 23rd, 2006 at 11:50 am
Smith has indeed been part of the England Squad for a while now and tends to come on as a substitute… while we don’t know the final squad he did have a chance at the World Cup - not now.
February 23rd, 2006 at 11:56 am
I think the two sets of fans chanting obsenities at each other in the stadium is on a par, certainly, but the Liverpool fans took it further by referencing Munich and attacking an ambulance with a injured player in it at the same time.
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Referencing Munich was taking it further than referencing Hillsborough and Heysel? Give me a break.
If you want to nit-pick about degrees of disgusting behaviour (which the ambulance incident was the worst of), I’ll split hairs with you over who started the whole thing, Man Utd. Not only their fans’ disgusting chants early on the day of the match, but Gary Neville who has been convicted, fined and warned about his future conduct by the FA for recent incitment of Liverpool fans.
Martin, Alan Smith made only three appearances for England in 2005. USA, Columbia, and Poland. Two of those were friendlies in a mickey mouse tour to America for which a raft of senior players were missing. Even on that tour one of the two games he played was as a substitute.
The other appearance he made for England was against Poland in a World Cup Qualifier in which England were missing David Beckham and Steven Gerrard through injury/suspension. Even in their absence he was only thrown on as an 87th minute substitute with England leading 2-1 in a nod to the venue, Old Trafford.
You’re kidding yourself if you think he was going to the World Cup.
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Sinead, you’re obviously a ManU supportor. How else could you think that referencing Munich is taking it further than referencing Hillsborough and Heysel? You’ve also obviously never been to a game if you think that throwing faeces in a paper cup is bad! I’m laughing as I type this….
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:30 pm
Cahony and Rory, if you read my post I said that both references are as bad as each other (’on a par’) but choosing to shout the same tasteless references AT THE SAME TIME as throwing missiles at an ambulance carrying an injured player is worse.
Oh, and I’ve been to lots of Premiership matches and - sadly - Eircom League ones too!
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Most fans are normal people. They *like* the rivalry between teams. They slag off their friends, recall glorious victories, drink more pints….
And then there’s the scumballs. The ones who want to incite a fight. They’re not fans and we shouldn’t call them fans. Or supporters. Nobody wants them associated with their club. They’re the ones that riot after games, burn seats, and rock ambulances.
Similarly, nobody wants to get a cupful of sh*t in their face, and when you think about, did they have to prepare before the game???
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:36 pm
Too true Rory…
I used to go and see St. Pat’s a lot and the banter and slagging was hilarious. It made many a crap game on a freezing cold day more bearable.
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:41 pm
Sinead:
I think the two sets of fans chanting obsenities at each other in the stadium is on a par, certainly, but the Liverpool fans took it further by referencing Munich and attacking an ambulance with a injured player in it at the same time.
That sentence infers that referencing Munich is worse than any obsenities Man Utd. fans chanted in the stadium. This is not true.
It also infers that attacking an ambulance with an injured player in it is worse than referencing Munich. This is true.
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:42 pm
Sorry i was dreaming
http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/Players/Postings/2004/03/Alan+Smith+Leeds+United.htm
he’s not going now anyway…
As for behaviour:
Banter = fun
Shitting in cups = scumbags
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:46 pm
Cahony, you may have misunderstood me.
I’m saying that referencing ANY tragedy is not on, it just seems worse to reference a tragedy while attacking an ambulance at the same time.
Let me be clear, in no way did I mean to infer that Munich is any worse than what United fans said in the ground.
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:51 pm
Martin, are you being sarcastic with that comment or not? I can’t tell.
I hope you’re not being sarcastic, otherwise do you think Robert Green, Sol Campbell, Luke Young, Paul Konchesky, Michael Carrick, James Beattie, Wes Brown, Nicky Butt, Scott Carson, Stewart Downing, Anthony Gardner, Danny Mills, Jlloyd Samuel, Gareth Southgate, Stephen Warnock and Richard Wright are all going to Germany simply because they are profiled on the FA’s Senior England Squad profiles page?
February 23rd, 2006 at 12:54 pm
It seems worse referencing a tragedy at the same time as attacking an ambulance than just referencing a tragedy?
I did misunderstand, I hadn’t realised you were getting so insightful Sinead!
February 23rd, 2006 at 1:01 pm
Cahony, I think you know what I’m saying but by all means choose to misinterpret it if you want to.
February 23rd, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Just when I thought we were all back to being friends! Jeez.
February 23rd, 2006 at 1:52 pm
I say we settle this with a football chant competition at the blog awards.
Ok, so far I’ve got pony, moany, boney, phony, all-alone-y and Macaroni to rhyme with Cahony so I’ll get working on my chant.
February 23rd, 2006 at 1:56 pm
At least there is plenty of time for you United fans to work on your chants now that they have a few spare Tuesday and Wednesday evenings
February 23rd, 2006 at 1:59 pm
“I say we settle this with a football chant competition at the blog awards.”
PS - I’ll have to include “You’ll never walk alone-y” as well.
February 23rd, 2006 at 2:09 pm
http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~czarak/count-these.jpg
February 23rd, 2006 at 3:13 pm
Cheap Cahony, cheap.
February 23rd, 2006 at 3:17 pm
I actually took it as a compliment.
February 23rd, 2006 at 3:36 pm
It doesn’t have to be clever to pinch a little bit does it?
What’s really cheap Colm is the 5 pounds it costs United Supporters to get into the Anfield Museum tour so they can see the cup they won in 1999 at its perpetual home.
February 24th, 2006 at 8:16 am
perpetual home?…….as i was in the bernabeu last friday , i believe that is a better home for their NINE cups
February 24th, 2006 at 11:28 am
I don’t quite get you Col, you say “perpetual home?” What is your query around that? That trophy will never leave LFC’s trophy cabinet, it is ours for keeps on account of winning the competition five times.
What do you mean “a better home for their NINE Cups?”
Despite winning the competition seven times more than Man. Utd. they don’t have nine cups. Madrid, like Liverpool have a single ‘real’ European Cup in their stadium, surely you’d know that if you were there last Friday?
February 24th, 2006 at 11:50 am
who’s being sarcastic now…….it’s just typical of pool fans to turn a blog conversation about football fans and there antics in to we won more trophys than you
February 24th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
If you check Col, it was Sinead who intitally turned the discussion tongue-in-cheek regarding the chant competition at the blog awards. I think we had said everything of a serious nature on the issue that was required. I must have missed your considered and serious contribution to the discussion?
Also, you’re right, it is just typical of ‘pool fans to turn a blog conversation about ANYTHING into ‘we won more trophies than you’. That’s a grace you get when you are the most successful club in your domestic arena and one of Europe’s true elite. After all, it’d be hard for any other British club’s supporters to say ‘we won more trophies than Liverpool’ now, wouldn’t it?
February 24th, 2006 at 12:25 pm
Cahony,
Perhaps Colin has only just found the thread, so I think being condescending on that front is a cheap shot.
As for this:
“Also, you’re right, it is just typical of ‘pool fans to turn a blog conversation about ANYTHING into ‘we won more trophies than you’. That’s a grace you get when you are the most successful club in your domestic arena and one of Europe’s true elite. After all, it’d be hard for any other British club’s supporters to say ‘we won more trophies than Liverpool’ now, wouldn’t it?”
Wow, is this the definition you get when you look up ‘ smug’ in the dictionary.
One of you supports United, one supports Liverpool - neither of you supports scumbag fans.
I think we should leave it at that.
February 24th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Fair enough, I wasn’t going to mention Sinead, but now that that’s twice I’ve been labeled cheap in this thread, I’ll have to continue.
You’re original post on the issue was what started the cheap tone, mirroring the media coverage. In particular your title ‘A new low for Liverpool fans’ is at best foolish and ill-conceived and at worst deeply offensive in the light of Liverpool’s fans involvement in the Heysel disaster which claimed the lives of dozens of people, never mind the Hillsborough disaster which (admittedly through no fault of LFC supporters) was the clubs lowest moment.
Your failure to give any balance to the post in mentioning that an employee of Manchester United Football Club, who happens to be the Club Captain, had just recently been convicted, fined and warned about his future conduct for incitement of Liverpool fans is surprising. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you weren’t aware (as I said, no balanced coverage in mainstream media) that Manchester United fans sang sickeningly low chants about Hillsborough, Heysel, and Michael Shields, all topics which run much deeper in Liverpool people’s emotions than their burning passion for football. Of course, as I have said earlier, none of this warrants the base reactions of some Liverpool people inside and outside the stadium, but it does give it context which is surely an integral part of the story.
February 27th, 2006 at 11:33 am
Boo hoo Paul. Seriously, my calling your comment ‘cheap’ (not you as you suggest) was done in jest.
People, really! It’s a game of fooball we’re talking about with two teams from the UK. Relax.
May 14th, 2006 at 12:03 am
Hi! I am a Liverpool fan and mohamed Lamine Sissoko (MOMO.
I want to receving the picture and news for team Liverpool.
bye bye.