March 2nd, 2007
Girls with guitars and cock-rockery
Only a week or so on from the Irish women writers debate, this article (written about three weeks ago) might suggest I’m on a feminist roll about the exclusion of women, and perhaps writing that article subconsciously kicked off the women writers post. Maybe it’s more rant ‘n’ roll, than rock ‘n’ roll, but then getting to say “cock-rockery” in The Irish Times is fun.
There wasn’t room to talk about every woman who’s ever picked up a six-string in the piece, but I’d really like to hear who people’s favourite female guitarists are. PJ? Courtney? The big-haired lasses from Heart? And who will be first in with the “gee-tar” quip?
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:22 am
Was just stopping by to comment on your Choice thing about Neil Hannon so can I say KT Tunstall? She’s one of a new generation of women guitarists who might inspire younger girls to learn to play. We need more!!!
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:30 am
Aimee Mann is worth a mention. She’s become more of a folkie in recent years but her earlier (and I think better) stuff is more of your indie rock.
And L7’s Donita Sparks flashing her minge on The Word was pretty Rock’n'Roll…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O1DTgf8PMuM
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:38 am
Kim Deal is a complete Legend, both for the pixies (does bass guitar count?) and the Breeders. Kristin Hersh is another one. You don’t get better than those two…
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:48 am
Oohh loads.
I was pondering my long held dislike of the Gossip on the bus this morning (Movement, what a samey, snoregasm of a record)and thinking that the Donnas deserved that shot at fame far, far more. Take It Off is one of my favourite records ever. Women who rock, for sure.
March 2nd, 2007 at 11:20 am
Tanya Donnelly- I’ve never understood why Kristin Hersh always comes up (which is fine) but poor Tanya is left out in the cold.
March 2nd, 2007 at 11:31 am
deadly article Sinead.
two words: Sleater-Kinney
March 2nd, 2007 at 11:58 am
stretching it a tad, but bass is a guitar, we have to namecheck Kim Gordon, the mammy of all female bassists. And the new Sonic Youth album is Surprisingly Good too.
Una - I wish I liked them better, but I just can’t take SK’s warbly vocals. They make me want to scream and throw things.
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:23 pm
This kind of thing makes me so sad and disillusioned. Thanks for writing the piece and highlighting it Sinead. Why oh why did they ignore the women?
Tanya Donnelly and Kristin Hersh were the reason I started playing guitar. Even though I worshipped Bernard Butler like no other, it was Donnelly and Hersh that made me make the link between listening to music and actually trying to make it myself.
I’ve learned most of the things I know about guitar from female bands - duelling from Sleater-Kinney, feedback from PJ Harvey, and the small intricacies of mismatching vocal melodies with guitar lines from Kristin Hersh, oh yeah, and the realisation that you don’t have to be technically brilliant to rock from Courtney Love. And can I just mention Mary Timony as one of my favourite guitarists (and she plays a Mustang just like mine:))?
The exclusion of women in that exhibition and the simultaneous inclusion of them as sex objects only is pretty depressing. Maybe they didn’t realise that Liz Phair has done a photo shoot naked with her Mustang. Maybe then they might have acceded to including a woman in the exhibition?
Now I’m really angry. *sigh* Sorry for the rant.
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:25 pm
So basically no one interesting has come along since 1996 then?
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Oops, Joni Mitchell and her wonderful innovative tunings and beautiful playing?
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:33 pm
If you want to see Rock & Roll being invented by a woman, check out this awesome clip of Sister Rosetta Tharpe, predating even Chuck Berry, let alone Elvis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj18s9p6I9g
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I thought Polly’s right leg was stratospherically vast in the pic - squint a little if it doesn’t look odd to begin with - until I realised it was some sort of amp or something (isn’t it? I’m pretty sure that whatever it is, it couldn’t all her leg…..).
In any case: despite, or maybe because of, her leg imbalance issues: Polly Rocks.
It only mentions one Irish girl guitarist in the article (Sinead O’Connor on Mandinka). Have they forgotten Charlotte Hatherley of Ash? Or is she not important enough?
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:55 pm
Charlotte Hatherley is a great guitar player. Saw her at the village last week…but is she technically pre- or post-1996 considering she’s been playing in bands since she was fifteen, that is the question?
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Well, saying Hendrix doesn’t exactly evoke the 40’s or 50’s……
Also, I hadn’t seen the call for post-1996 guitaristas (due to comment moderation). Mentioning Charlotte Hathaway was more to with the Ticket’s only managing to come with Sinead O’Connor in the Irish guitarists.
Anyone know any Trad Irish guitarists?
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Charlotte Hathaway? How silly of me.
I mean Hatherley.
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Marie - more women guitar role models is definitely a good thing, be it acoustic or electric.
Martin - Aimee Mann is definitely worth a mention. As the exhibition was about electric guitars, I had to stick to that rather than include acoustic players - God it could have wandered off in a million directions if I’d had that scope.
Re The Word - that’s the infamous ‘throwing a used tampon at the crowd’ appearance if I remember it correctly. Joan Jett produced some of the later L7 stuff too.
Morg - Bass definitely counts but I had to stick to electric stuff. Kim Deal was a huge influence on loads of women musicians I know, she rocks.
Kirstie - I’m with you on the over-ratedness of The Gossip. Just don’t get it at all. And Kim Gordon is a legend. I went to see Sonic Youth in McGonagle’s in 1990 and she wandered past me out to the tour bus while queuing to get in. Super cool lady and a great bassist.
Colink - The Kristen over Tanya thing probably comes from the fact the age old thing that frontperson gets all the attention. I know Tanya sang on some Belly stuff, but Kristen always seemed to the one everyone talked about.
UnaRocks - Cheers Una, Sleater-Kinney are definitely up there.
Edel - The exhibition really struck me as disappointingly exclusive but it goes on on so many levels. Even more disappointing, as you point out, is the fact that the only inclusions were women as objects on guitars, rather than as guitarists themselves. Good call on Joni Mitchell. Her Blue album is one of my favourites.
ball*istic - Of course there are, care to offer any suggestions? Also 800 words sadly doesn’t allow for an entire chronology of women guitarists. There’s a very good book called She Bop: The Definitive History of Women in Rock, Pop, and Soul by Lucy O’Brien if you’re interested.
Fergal - brilliant, thanks for that link.
Brendan - Polly does indeed rock, even if that is an odd photo, I kinda like that it’s slightly out of focus too. Weirdly, I’m listening to Charlotte’s new album this week and it’s pretty damn good, but like I say, tiny word counts are not condusive to producing a chronological tome on what appears to be a subject people are interested in, sadly, so there wasn’t room to expand on all women guitarists/acoustic players/more Irish female guitarists. Maybe when I take over the world.
Perhaps you missed the mention of four female-dominated Irish guitar bands?
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Cross commented there Brendan, must be that picture below of Anne Hathaway that has you in a tizzy…
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Aimee’s early work is all Telecasters…
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Edel, there’s more food for thought with Rolling Stone’s Top 100 Guitarists - Joan Jett is the only women to make it. But this is the same list that doesn’t include Johnny Marr or Rory Gallagher.
So if there was a poll this was to be a technical/playing thing, who do people reckon is the best female player?
March 2nd, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Anne Hathaway: Seems a likely explanation.
More sloppiness: due to the funny folding situation of el Times (author one side/article other), and a skimming read of the blog post, I rather missed the authorship (me = twit). Technically: Bonnie Raitt?
March 2nd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
a poll for “best guitarists” seems likely enough to favour some musical genres…are there many women who are that sort of fire throwing rock god slide on their knees play guitar behind their back type guitarists? I mean, isn’t it a kind of male creation to begin with? I don’t want to overstep my mark as a man, I don’t know how it seems to women, but aren’t the polls like “best 100 guitarists” kinda male in themselves?
do female guitarists need to feature in this kind of poll then? or would it be better to acknowledge (or maybe celebrate) differences between the sexes that manifest themselves in different ways when it comes to playing instruments? note: I’m not saying “girls cannot rock” or “guys rock, girls are sensitive”, just that maybe it’s possible some cultural/musical roles become sort of gender specific
March 2nd, 2007 at 3:12 pm
(and that this probably has negative effects for men too)
March 2nd, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Sister Rosetta Tharpe rocks (does rock sign as emoticon)
March 2nd, 2007 at 4:22 pm
DON’T SLEEP ON FEMALE BASS PLAYERS!
March 2nd, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Great article, Sinead. Pretty ridiculous that women got absolutely no look in. Actually nobody here has mentioned the one female guitarist who technically wipes the floor with all all others: Jennifer Batten. Her name may not ring a bell, but if I say Michael Jackson, then you’ll probably remember the girl with long blond hair that appeared in a few of his videos and did something like 3 world tours with him. Incidentally she beat out 100 other guitarists to get that gig.
Also, that Rolling Stone list of the 100 greatest guitarists of all time sucks hugely. Jennifer Batten definitely deserves a nod on it. Also notably absent are Steve Vai and Joe Satriani, who himself was the guitar teacher of Vai and of Metallica’s Kirk Hammett (no. 11) and Kevin Cadogan from Third Eye Blind, as well as many others.
Here’s Jennifer Batten performing Flight of the Bumblebees, complete with several thousand bees!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZBuzbe9xCo
Here she is soloing at a Jackson concert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQO2fi-UJxo&mode=related&search=
Here’s an interview with her at a French heavy metal zine. She mentions being overlooked for plum jobs because most male rockers think a female guitarist is going to cramp their style:
http://www.auxportesdumetal.com/interviews/jenniferbatten-uk.html
March 2nd, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Hi Ronan, I don’t see how a poll of 100 guitarists has to necessarily be a male thing, but I know what you’re trying to say. It’s a bit like the Women writers post - no one wants any of these sort of things to be decided on gender, but when one or the other is excluded it seems only fair to try and right it by highlighting the omissions. Maybe it’s because guitars are so damn phallic.
Be sure and say hello tomorrow night.
Michelle, you’ve lost me! Are they meant to make bad mattreses?
Paul, thank you for the kind words and for those links. I never knew what her name was, just remembered the giant hair - that FOTB clip is crazy! But, I think she has hit the nail on the head with the idea that a lot of guys wouldn’t like to be outshone on stage by a guitarist, especially if that guitarist happened to be a woman.
The RS poll is bizarre. No Rory Gallagher is obscene.
March 2nd, 2007 at 9:04 pm
gotta share the polly
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:56 pm
I may be showing my age but Suzi Quattro was the real deal in my opinion.
March 3rd, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Annie Clark of St. Vincent!
March 3rd, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Dan, she’s a bassist, but totally rocking. So tiny but packed a big punch, especially ‘Devil Gate Drive’.
Bobby, welcome, she supported Sufjan Stevens at the Olympia. I love her voice and she seems to play a ton of instruments, not just guitar.
March 3rd, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Why has nobody mentioned Le Tigre, or Chicks on Speed, or CSS? Joanna Newsom? ESG?
March 3rd, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Oops, I posted a bit too quickly there. Guitars, eh? Joanna Newsom, now she can really wield an axe…
March 4th, 2007 at 7:30 am
Congrats on the award last night Sinéad. I’m glad you never chucked this blogging lark in!
March 4th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Excellent piece in the Times - I agree with everything you said. Any girl who’s ever tried out a guitar in a music shop will have first hand experience of the assumption that all guitarists are male. When I bought my first electric guitar in 1992, the bloke in Music Maker asked me was it for my boyfriend.
Colink – The Kristen over Tanya thing probably comes from the fact the age old thing that frontperson gets all the attention. I know Tanya sang on some Belly stuff, but Kristen always seemed to the one everyone talked about.
Actually, when Belly’s first album came out in early ‘93, it got way more attention than any of the Throwing Muses stuff up to that date. They were on the cover of the NME and Melody Maker and Tanya Donelly (who sang on all the Belly stuff, and wrote and sang a few songs on every Muses album until she left after The Real Ramona) was kind of an indie it-girl. It seemed like they were going to be huge - but then they split up after the second (underrated) album and Tanya Donelly’s solo work has been pretty sporadic and patchy. Since then, of course, Kirstin Hersh has gone on producing great stuff, whereas Donelly has been much more quiet, and I think that’s why she has sort of been forgotten. It’s a shame, because while I still love Hersh’s stuff (she was my total heroine in my teens and like Edel, she was the reason I picked up an electric guitar) the two Belly albums are absolutely perfect indie pop. Poor old Tanya, she deserves better!
March 4th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Bobby, good call on Annie Clark. Saw her supporting Sufjan and she was really impressive and inspiring. In a similar vein (and with similar Sufjan connections) Shara Worden plays some lovely guitar on her My Brightest Diamond album - think it’s called Bring Me the Workhorse - you can check it here http://www.myspace.com/mybrightestdiamond.
Sinead, that Rolling Stone list just bored me bloody rigid - but did you see Joni sneaked in there at number 72, which makes two female guitarists out of 100 :). Woohoo!
March 5th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Seanachie, indeed she can, as can the CSS gals.
Kav, thank you, pity you couldn’t make it over, it was a great night.
Stellanova, cheers lady. I’ve heard so many women I know say that about music shops and how presumptuous music shop guys can be about buying stuff. Re Kristen, I always felt (and put this clumsily in my reply to Colink) that although Tanya was the singer, it still felt like Kristin’s band because of Throwing Muses - does that make sense? It’s such a shame Donnelly hasn’t had the same quality of output as Hersh, whose new album is great (I think I remember you saying you really liked it too).
Edel, the MBD stuff is very nice, I keep forgetting to go back to it. I totally missed Joni in that list - apologies! Still 2 out of 100 is a bloody disgrace.
March 9th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Can’t believe I missed this post - sorry.
My own vote for best guitarist goes to a relatively unknow duo, Katie and Irina, famous in Boston and surrounds and without doubt the best female guitarists I’ve seen.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=38852297
For big name folk, I’d go with Jennifer Batten, her choice of stage outfits and hairdressers aside, that girl can PLAY!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZBuzbe9xCo&mode=related&search=
March 15th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Relevant article in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/arts/music/11herm.html?ref=music
March 21st, 2007 at 1:42 pm
lydia lunch