February 28th, 2008
2008 Choice Music Prize - some thoughts
*It’s no mean feat winning a prize like this, congrats to Super Extra Bonus Party who pulled off yet another upset for the Choice Music Prize. I met someone last night who has had money on all the winners since 2006 - all outsiders. Lucky git. Next year I’m betting on whoever is the equivalent of a three-legged donkey in the Grand National. It’s that unpredictable picking a winner.
* Congrats to Jim and Dave for what is a fantastic event for so many reasons, and is easily becoming one of the year’s musical highlights.
*The dude singing ‘Everything Flows’ with SEBP looks very like David Turpin. In an odd coincidence, David plays the same venue 24 hours later supporting Marc Almond.
*Here’s the SEBP Musical Rooms piece. Dig those lead window presses!
*When the result was announced, not a single person within a 40 feet of where I was standing responded. It was weird. Total widespread shock.
*I talked to a lot of people afterwards, and I was hard pushed to find one music journalist, music promoter, record company person or musician who thought it was a good decision. One journalist said to me that the result “cheapened” the prize and that it can never aspire to being the “Irish Mercury” now. Tough words.
*Dave Reid is one of the Choice organisers. Apart from being a total gent, he looks very like Luis Figo.
*Live, Super Extra Bonus Party put on a kick ass show.
* One person I spoke to who was happy with the result explained that SEBP are a great live band. The prize is awarded on the basis of an album in a given year - not live performance. If it was based on that, Roisin Murphy would have won for an unbelievable performance last night. I could have listened to her all night.
*I heard a really sweet story about Cormac SEBP and his teenage demo tapes. Last night must be a dream come true.
* I heard a lot of rumours about what a close call it was which reminded me of last year. If the other album that nearly won last year had won, I would’ve been very disappointed.
*I was SURE Cathy Davey would win on the night. Speaking to her later on, she was very humble and gracious. But I’m sure she must have felt robbed.
* Fair play to the judges - it’s very, very tough being in that room and reaching a consensus. Some of the motivations you don’t understand, but that’s the way it goes. In previous years, a lot of people equally didn’t want Divine Comedy or Julie Feeney to win - from judges to punters - and that’s the frustrating beauty of a democratic vote. There will always be surprises.
*SEPB seem like nice chaps and probably need that whopping ten grand more than anyone. Don’t go mad spending it on bling now.
Here’s the very fine video for ‘Everything Flows’ by the winners.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Not Cathy? Unbelievable. Those lads are not my bag at all.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:42 am
GAH!
Why didn’t I throw a few on my ‘dark horse’ bet too?!
Well done to the lads.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:45 am
I’m disappointed. I don’t think the best album won. I’m not saying that the SEBP album isn’t good (I never really warmed to it, it must be said, though), they’re good at what they do, and their performance was great, but… not the best album by quite a stretch.
You’re right about Roisin Murphy, though.. she was just in a different class.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Hey I was looking out for you last night.
[off topic] beers soon [/off topic]
[quote]*When the result was announced, not a single person within a 40 feet of where I was standing responded. It was weird. Total widespread shock [/quote]
People booed from around where I was sitting.
I can’t comment on the record because I haven’t heard it but their performance was a total tranny mess. It was the worst of the evening.
Roisin Murphy?
I lay prostrate at your feet. wow. you could have heard a pin drop.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:55 am
“I was hard pushed to find one music journalist, music promoter, record company person or musician who thought it was a good decision”
Wow, I found that surprising to tell you the truth. Were all these people quite happy last year when a well established act like The Divine Comedy won? Hard to see what their problem is.
By the way, which album came close last year, ah go on, do tell
Congrats to the lads, imho they deserve it!
February 28th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
“One journalist said to me that the result “cheapened” the prize and that it can never aspire to being the “Irish Mercury” now. Tough words.”
What a load of bollocks. Someone from M-People has a Mercury gong lying around their gaff. Some people take these awards far too seriously
February 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Disappointed Adrian Crowley didn’t win it but SEBP are worthy enough in my estimation. It’s a fairly out-there album though I do suspect they’ve yet to hit their mark.
I’m glad the favourite didn’t win though…besides, Cathy’s got a Meteor award to cosy up to. Whoop Whoop!
Yeah it was a weird reaction when the announcement was made, and I’ve heard people talking about the cheapening of the prize, and that the judges are trying to be obscure for the sake of it. But you know as well as I do Sinead that when the judges reach the decision it’s a fairly arbitrary process - you may go into the room as a judge ready to fight tooth and nail for your favourite album but you do end up throwing your weight behind another one entirely in the course of the judgement. It’s a process of elimination and a very very tough thing to do, with 12 people and 12 agendas in the room. So whatever people think of the outcome, kudos is due to the panel in the end. Rant over.
February 28th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
I’m still reeling, I can’t quite believe they won. The record is original, yes, but that doesn’t automatically make it good. Adrian Crowley or Cathy Davey would have had my vote for both originality and quality. Although Roisin Murphy blew every one of them out of the water - I’m thinking perhaps she didn’t win because she was *too* good!
February 28th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
I’m afraid I have to agree with the journalist who said that SEBP winning “cheapened” the prize, it does. There is no reinventing the wheel with Super Extra Bonus Party, and if truly interesting, rich music had won out, the prize would have gone to Roisin Murphy or Adrian Crowley. The decision really goes to the heart of some of the weakness present in the Irish music industry/environment. The prize is supposed to be based on an album in a given year - Roisin Murphy’s ‘Overpowered’ is a flowing, multi-faceted sonic boom of a record, that leaves Super Extra Bonus Party trailing in its wake; and if live performance was ever a part of discussions, then it would be hard to find a more compelling performer at the moment than Roisin M. Perhaps the judges felt she was too ‘big’ to win, which seems to defeat the whole idea of basing it purely on what is the best Irish album of the year. I am in two minds about the value of Choice, although it has such potential.
February 28th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
[…] a look at Sinead’s blog for her take on the night, head over to UnaRocks who gives an insight into the judges’ side […]
February 28th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I would tend to agree with that journalist - I’d be surprised if people took this prize as seriously next year.
February 28th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
or perhaps the judges just didn’t like these albums as much as you do? Perhaps other people also prefer this album to the ones you mentioned. Disagreeing with the decision because you personally liked the other album(s) better is one thing, but to say that the award is somehow cheapened or is now irrevelant just because the decision doesnt match your own personal preference is perhaps a little over the top no?
February 28th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
[…] EILE: Some fascinating reactions over on Sinead’s blog, in the post and the […]
February 28th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Dave - a lot of people thought Cathy would do it.
Joe - a few quid could have been made. And it would’ve made up for the result.
Lauren - I agree with you. No one’s particularly saying that SEBP make bad records. But theirs simply isn’t the Best Irish album of last year.
Q - wish I’d known you were there. Knew you’d love Roisin.
Ian - you could well be right. Maybe we all need a little perspective here.
Tanya - I didn’t envy those judges one bit. I remember how hard it was last year, and that you and I completely disagreed in the final round of voting! I would like to see what SEBP will do next, and it’s great that they have 10 grand to put into making a new record.
Catherine - it’s a prize for originality as you say, it’s a prize for an album that outshines its peers, something that SEBP doesn’t do.
Siobhan - I don’t think it’ll do the prize damage, but as someone said to me last night, will this winners be remembered as much as some of the acts that lost out? Time will tell.
Last year when I was a judge someone “big” winning it wasn’t even up for discussion, in that we were strictly told to vote for what we felt was the best, most representative of quality, Irish album there was.
Enda - “perhaps the judges just didn’t like these albums as much as you do?”
Some of judges also didn’t like the SEBP album, or indeed Cathy’s or Adrian’s.
“Disagreeing with the decision because you personally liked the other album(s) better is one thing, but to say that the award is somehow cheapened or is now irrevelant just because the decision doesnt match your own personal preference is perhaps a little over the top no?”
The point of the post was that a lot of people there last night - many who work in music and media, many who don’t - DIDN’T like the winning album. I’m one of them.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and is entitled to disagree with the outcome of any prize, Choice or otherwise, no?
I didn’t say the prize was cheapened, I was quoting someone else. I think they’re strong words, but a few people (see above) seem to feel similarly, whether it’s over the top or not.
The bottom line for me, and it seems many people, if you read the comments here and at Jim’s blog is this:
Q Is the SEBP the best Irish album of 2008? Better than Cathy, Adrian and Roisin?
A No, not in my opinion. Or a whole heap of others it seems.
And Enda, I couldn’t possibly say which album it was. Jim Carroll will put a price on my head.
Lots of people didn’t want DC to win last year, but you can’t dispute the quality of the album, or Julie Feeney’s the previous year, something that people are disputing this year.
February 28th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Jim Carroll will put a price on my head
At the moment, it is €1.45 but this may go up later when I finish the accounts
Great comments all round. I naturally agree with some of them and disagree with more of them.
I always think of Oscar the morning after the Choice Music Prize.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/39714.html
February 28th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
sinead,
i’m delighted for the lads for it’s a great album, but i’ve been somewhat surprised at the animosity the award got
i must admit i really thought cathy davey was going to win, so i was stunned when a friend told me they had
congratulations to the lads
February 28th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Jim - 1.45? You cheapskate.
Leigh - none of the bad feeling from anyone is personal at all. People are just surprised, disappointed etc. Same every year!
February 28th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
sinead,
must clarify - i was on jim’s blog as well and seemed an awful lot of ill-feeling towards the decision
maybe animosity was too strong, but you get my drift
February 28th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
*sighs* no time for these debates today but damnit, I’ll be late anyway!
In terms of the ‘cheap’ factor: to the right palate, a bag of penny jellies coated in fizz and electric colours taste just as good as Belgian chocs.
The Prize proved that we are not afraid to take the lesser-travelled path and do have faith in the future of new, diverse sounds and the personalities combined in the making of iconoclastic records. Roisin and Adrian (they were INCREDIBLE!) both produced flawless albums but they stuck very firmly in the mould they built for their sound. SEBP on the other hand, have no mould; it must have been drop-kicked off that kitchen floor!
February 28th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
I agree with you. No one’s particularly saying that SEBP make bad records. But theirs simply isn’t the Best Irish album of last year.
That’s your opinion Sinéad. Your colouring your argument with subjectivity.
Regarding the other journalists who were disappointed, I wonder how many have actually heard the album or reviewed it? The responses for the album were overall very positive.
At the end of the day it was those 12 judges who were picked for their knowledge and passion who picked SEBP. No matter what anyone else thinks as much as it may upset and delight in equal measures.
February 28th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
“That’s your opinion Sinéad. Your colouring your argument with subjectivity.”
Isn’t an opinion and a subjective arguement one and the same thing? And aren’t we all allowed to hold them? Like I said above, a lot of people don’t believe it’s the best Irish album of the year. I bet a lot of people don’t believe Adrian’s or Cathy’s albums are the best either. They’re differing viewpoints and they’re all valid.
This debate is about the Best Irish album of last year in the context of being judged alongside nine other albums. It’s not about if SEBP are good or bad, it’s about whether their album is BETTER than the other nine. In my view, and the views of many others, it’s not. It’s ok to say that Niall. No one is having a go at the guys personally (and if you read the post, I’ve said a lot of positive things about them), they’re just disagreeing with the results, something that happens every year.
Several of those journalists who disagreed with the result don’t like the album. Same with some of the judges. It happens.
Too true re the judges. I know lots of people accosted me about Divine Comedy last year. As it happens, I was pleased with the result. It wasn’t my first choice as a winner, but that was what the judges eventually voted for. If another album had won (won that was in the final round) I would’ve been unhappy.
February 28th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
I think it’s about context, nnot about slagging off the guys that won. It’s about the fact that up against up other albums it just wasn’t as good, and some would say, not as deserving. Personally, I think their sound is a bit on the dated side and I don’t think it deserved to win up against quality albums Roisin Murphy or Cathy Davey. The world would be a bit crap if we all thought the same about everything.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
A quick check list of albums that got away down the years….
Read ‘em and weep.
‘Coping Mechanisms’ - Si Schroeder
‘The End of history’ - Fionn Regan
‘Check in’ - The Chalets
…and now ‘Long distance swimmer’ - Adrian Crowley
The judging system needs to be revised surely.
See the evidence above.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:08 am
Oh dear. Looks like things have descended into nuclear fallout mode. Always poor when people are correcting each other.
Loved that Adrian Crowley album so much so that I went out and bought all of his others, that lo-fi melancholic sound of his is beautiful (new Sun Kil Moon album out on April 1 YESS!!) and I know I’ll certainly be listening to songs with the pedigree of “These Icy Waters”, for instance, for many years to come.
To me Roisin Murphy has long been the epitome of Irish (female) pop; I remember being bowled over by her performance of “The Time Is Now” on Later… with Jools Holland many years ago and have been a fan ever since. You have to check out the way that Jools Holland virtually drools over his piano - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YriPcubjW_c - absolutely mesmerizing!
As I said on the nialler9 blog last year, I wouldn’t really mind when SEBP won the best Irish album of the year there; Crowley figured, so too did Ms Murphy. To my ears the SEBP album sounded progressive & energizing & I could easily understand why so many people, like myself, found it so engaging - it’s just plain fun!
Of these artists, do I have a favorite? I don’t think I do. Each is great for what they do & what I want to listen to when the mood takes me. It seems churlish to me to resort to a “this is better than that” type argument or a “this is THE best coz we music journos say it is” because, in the end, these things really are quite subjective and it’s probably wrong to deal in such absolutes anyway.
In the end, I know I’d far rather listen to ANY of the above ANY day of the week than be subjected to that which is so widespread for the most part in modern culture though.
Peace oot.
Mr J
February 29th, 2008 at 2:06 am
I’m just wondering about the concept of the prize being cheapened by the judges’ descision. I’ve no great passionate view on what album should have won, but surely the process is flawed to begin with if we think any of the nominations aren’t going to be worthy winners? Why are they even nominated then?
Would it be impossible to only have a number of albums nominated of which people don’t dispute the quality (whichis what seems to be the issue this time)? So if the consensus is that there are only 4 truly great Irish albums in the year to only nominate the 4 and then let the judges have at it?
February 29th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Aine - I think context is what most people who disagreed with the result have a problem with. SEBP won, fair play. Was it the best Irish album of last year? Not to many ears.
Tom, in what way do you think the judging system needs to be revised? I think it’s a pretty fair and transparent process, especially having been in that room last year when we there was plenty of verbal fisticuffs.
Mr J - thanks for that, some astute words there. No one is correcting anyone. Everyone is just expressing an opinion. And when it comes to opinions on this, there’s no right or wrong, just a wide spectrum of views. And par for that course is people saying “this is better, than that”. It’s just one way of expressing a view. If someone else had won, a whole other group of people would still have been saying those very words.
FYI, my views come from being a passionate and dedicated fan of music, not from a journalistic point of view.
Oh, and I remember seeing Roisin on JH, he does indeed drool.
Eolai - I certainly don’t agree with the prize being cheapened, it was merely said to me on the night. Such a concept - as I said on Aoife’s Indie Hour blog - does a disservice to both the prize and this year’s winners.
I believe all 10 albums were worthy of being on that shortlist, as I think most people do. It was broad and exciting cluster sample of what’s going on in Irish music.
Personally, I don’t dispute the “quality” (as you say) of any of those albums. It’s just not the one I wanted to win. The same way that lots of people wanted Julie Christie and not Marian Cotillard to win Best Actress last weekend at the Oscars. It’s all subjectivity, and that’s no bad thing.
To finish, in their own way, I suppose I could paraphrase George Orwell and say that in my personal opinion “all ten albums were great, but some were greater than others”.
Hope that makes sense.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:58 am
PS MR J - “Loved that Adrian Crowley album so much so that I went out and bought all of his others”
This proves one of the most important points about the Choice Prize - it shines a light on artists and makes people want to find out all about them. To have people digging up an artist’s back catalogue is one of the best effects that Choice has.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:44 am
I’m not sure why SEBP fans are being so defensive and taking the discussion about their win as a personal affront. On the other hand, it’s really, really great to see people get so passionate about Irish albums. It’d be very anti-climactical - for SEBP too, I’m sure - if people just went ‘Oh, they won, did they? *Shrug*’.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Sinead it does make sense. I was just wondering really about the role of the list of nominees, given how important Jim has said being on the list is for exposure for the bands as against having an album on there which should it win some people will dispute the quality of it (over and above their personal taste).
Reference to quality (and I too have no problem with any of this year’s nominees) is based on the sheer strength of some reactions which I also took it that you were referring to when you said:
“Lots of people didn’t want DC to win last year, but you can’t dispute the quality of the album, or Julie Feeney’s the previous year, something that people are disputing this year.”
Because of the exposure the award generates, I guess my answer to my own question is that I prefer a list of 10 including perceived outsiders rather than, say, a shorter list of only the favourites.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
[…] and go up to the stage, as that’s really where my 50mm would have been happiest. UnaRocks, Sinéad Gleeson, and Nialler9 all have more banter on the night. Hotpress photographer Naomi McCardle has some […]
February 29th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
‘One journalist said to me that the result “cheapened” the prize and that it can never aspire to being the “Irish Mercury” now’
The result aside, if this pompous ‘journalist’ was utter such words about any of the 10 nominees it would still sound crass! ******NAME & SHAME THE SNOB!******
February 29th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
‘One journalist said to me that the result “cheapened” the prize and that it can never aspire to being the “Irish Mercury” now’
It was Nialler9, wasn’t it?
February 29th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Eolai - I think a good mix of albums across genres, indie v major labels, etc important for a shortlist. Did you say you put money on SEBP? How much did you win?
Lauren, that side of things has surprised me. No matter who had won this year, we’d all be talking, disagreeing and discussing it.
Robbie, I couldn’t possibly reveal my source, unless you want to haul me in front of a tribunal?
February 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Thanks Jim, you have confirmed my suspicions. Bring me the head of nialler9!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
You don’t think the sebp record is the best irish record of the year, fair enough, nobody can argue with that.
Besides that, the most prominent point coming across here seems to be that on the night some of your colleagues in the media were also pissed off with the result. They, funnily enough, are part of the same media that judged the sebp record as the best irish record of the year, and the same media that received the sebp record very well. So, you’ve highlighted there are differences of opinion in the media… wow… i wonder did anyone have any idea about that before they read this article?
“When the result was announced, not a single person within a 40 feet of where I was standing responded. It was weird. Total widespread shock.”
The audience, i presume was mainly composed of fans friends and family of the different bands, so naturally enough in different areas, the result wouldn’t have been received as well, or at all, or negatively, or whatever… Listen to the roar on the audio of the guy announcing the result, A lot of people reacted very well indeed!
March 4th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
“John Updike” (and we both know you’re not he, but that’s ok), this is a blog post, not an article, and it’s purpose was summarised in the post title “some thoughts”. My thoughts, and like everyone else there - fans, bloggers, journos, bar staff - I had thoughts, views and opinions. They’re different from yours perhaps, but that’s ok isn’t it?
As I said to Niall on Saturday night, EVERYONE is allowed to disagree with a vote/decision like this, that’s what happens with these things. Even the winners have to expect that.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
“…this is a blog post, not an article… …My thoughts, and like everyone else there - fans, bloggers, journos, bar staff - I had thoughts, views and opinions. They’re different from yours perhaps, but that’s ok isn’t it?
…EVERYONE is allowed to disagree with a vote/decision like this… …that’s what happens with these things.”
Yes. I know, I agree. Right back at ya!